Some healing questions and discussion

[Shizma]

This is also true of Shizma and Daeron. The big paladin advantage is on the AoE multi-pulls. In that case there is simply no comparison.

Warriors can keep up with paladins for threat gen on single targets El, but it does take us a second or two longer. Nothing more than that.

** edit**

and most of the additional time is to build some rage to burn on threat-generating abilities. Most of what you see as the paladin threat generation ability is that they start a fight with a fairly high threat generation cast (the frisbee) where the warrior starts with a bow-pull that generates a little threat from bow damage (damage=threat 1:1). It takes us a couple seconds to get "wound up".

[Myrkris]

For raid vs. tank healing, it all depends. You can look at it this way...

Fast direct heals (in rough amount healed order) - priests, shamans, paladins

Big/Slow direct heals - druids, priests, shamans, paladins

HoTs - druids, priests

Group heals - priests, shamans (chain heal)

Group HoTs - druids

I might have missed an ability here and there, but this gives you the idea. Each class has tools that work well for tank healing, and others that work well for raid healing. There might be players that are better suited to tank healing because they have trouble watching a raid's worth of health bars, but I don't think there are clear class advantages for either role.

[Elenca]

Lesson learned about trying to type effectively right after waking up.

I never said or meant to imply that Paladins are better, they just seem to be a bit more instantaneous on generating threat at the start, largely because the tanking ones I've seen have the Avenger's Shield. I say "hack" because it's just obscene to watch the threat bar jump like that, when I'm used to my trickling number at the bottom. Really, I was wondering if the extra threat from lifebloom ending is that worthwhile to *Any* kind of tank and I figured that it may be a slightly higher chance of being useful to Warriors or Feral Bears, because it does take an extra second or two to get their threat up more often. (Though, not always.)

I don't know enough about tanking to see how useful or not an extra 500 threat is, when the tanks are usually into the 20k+ range by the time lifebloom would even finish a single 6 second interval, unless I make sure to cast it before they pull. It just seems more sensible to me let the tanks build their aggros at their quick speeds with skills designed for just that and for healers to focus more on keeping their life full or as close as possible, rather than trying to strategically plan to add them a tiny extra slice of threat. It's seems like the "healing-self" threat is just an extra bonus that happens from time to time, rather than something I should try to focus on generating, much like spell crits, happy bonuses that aren't planned.

On the flip side, is it a big enough thing that a healing spell that doesn't do that extra threat to the healee should be preferred for a squishy DPS fighter than those that do add the extra threat?



Another random thing to pop into my thoughts:

I've yet to see a situation with diverse healers is a bad thing, is there really any kind of situation out there that having like... a whole bunch of one kind of healer class is key/required?

[Shizma]

Lesson learned about trying to type effectively right after waking up.

I never said or meant to imply that Paladins are better, they just seem to be a bit more instantaneous on generating threat at the start, largely because the tanking ones I've seen have the Avenger's Shield. I say "hack" because it's just obscene to watch the threat bar jump like that, when I'm used to my trickling number at the bottom. Really, I was wondering if the extra threat from lifebloom ending is that worthwhile to *Any* kind of tank and I figured that it may be a slightly higher chance of being useful to Warriors or Feral Bears, because it does take an extra second or two to get their threat up more often. (Though, not always.)

I don't know enough about tanking to see how useful or not an extra 500 threat is, when the tanks are usually into the 20k+ range by the time lifebloom would even finish a single 6 second interval, unless I make sure to cast it before they pull. It just seems more sensible to me let the tanks build their aggros at their quick speeds with skills designed for just that and for healers to focus more on keeping their life full or as close as possible, rather than trying to strategically plan to add them a tiny extra slice of threat. It's seems like the "healing-self" threat is just an extra bonus that happens from time to time, rather than something I should try to focus on generating, much like spell crits, happy bonuses that aren't planned.

On the flip side, is it a big enough thing that a healing spell that doesn't do that extra threat to the healee should be preferred for a squishy DPS fighter than those that do add the extra threat?



Another random thing to pop into my thoughts:

I've yet to see a situation with diverse healers is a bad thing, is there really any kind of situation out there that having like... a whole bunch of one kind of healer class is key/required?

Oh, I thought your post generated a couple of absolutely great threads I don't think I'd worry.

As to is it worth it.... it all helps IMO? But put it in context. Shiz will generate about 5-6000 threat in that first few seconds. Rynd generates a bit more, but Shiz averages about 5-600 TPS. So IMO you would have to decide based on the mana cost. If it's no loss, why not. if it's expensive, maybe not?

[Myrkris]

Another random thing to pop into my thoughts:

I've yet to see a situation with diverse healers is a bad thing, is there really any kind of situation out there that having like... a whole bunch of one kind of healer class is key/required?

I've never seen one. Sure, there are times when you need a priest for shackle, but since each class has a different mix of dispels and cures, buffs, fast/slow heals, and hots it's almost always better to have two different healers than two of the same class, regardless of what that class is.

[Ryndstrum]

I never said or meant to imply that Paladins are better, they just seem to be a bit more instantaneous on generating threat at the start, largely because the tanking ones I've seen have the Avenger's Shield. I say "hack" because it's just obscene to watch the threat bar jump like that, when I'm used to my trickling number at the bottom. Really, I was wondering if the extra threat from lifebloom ending is that worthwhile to *Any* kind of tank and I figured that it may be a slightly higher chance of being useful to Warriors or Feral Bears, because it does take an extra second or two to get their threat up more often. (Though, not always.)

It may seem it was your specific comment that sparked my reply. Not true. You just happend to break the camel's back, so to speak. To paraphrase Shiz, you helped spark something really good.

When you made your post, it was after many other posts over the past few weeks commenting (or complaining) about the greatness of Paladin aggro. I wanted to stop that perception. If you read something often enough, you will start to believe it.