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Thread: ZG - Sept 15. We came, We Saw, We....

  1. #1
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    ZG - Sept 15. We came, We Saw, We....

    ...got pwnd!

    Well, barely. Took us a bit but I think we finally have the formula to take down Venoxis. On our second to last attempt we got him down to 8%. I think our main problem was lack of ranged DPS. That and we need to execute a little better.


    For those of you from HE, AAF, and CC, it's my custom to post a long-winded write-up of the previous day's major encounters. I normally do this on the HLS listserv but, hey, what the heck? Why shield our sister guilds from the verbosity that is Warcaster! ;)


    This boss is tricky. He's got 26,200HP so just that alone would take some time to burn down. He's also go 4 60-elite snakes for bodyguards that have to be dealt with.

    What worked best for us was to give Darkkwing a dedicated healer and have him pull Venoxis down to the main floor and tank him by the bonfire. Everyone else is on the 4 guards. With two druids sleeping and my sheep we were able to keep from fighting more than two at once. They burn down pretty quick with that much focused fire.

    When the bodyguards are gone we switched over to Venoxis. The first part of the fight is your standard tank/dps variety. When he gets down to about 45% health (some of the guides said 55% but he was lower each time I saw the transformation) he goes into this snake form that is just insanely nasty. He emits this green cloud of AE damage that drops players like bugs to a can of Raid. Fortunately it's static and you can move him out of it. At some point in the fight Venoxis goes beserk and starts whacking on the ranged DPS. I don't know if he's scripted to drop tank aggro like some of the MC bosses or if it's just because the ranged DPS is finally moving up on his hate list. Either way, it hurts. I'm leaning towards thinking the ranged DPS is blasting him off the tanks since in almost every case he came after me first. Although, on the very last fight I completely stopped nuking him after he switched forms and he still came straight to me. The first time he killed me I got hit for 5,600 in one shot. Since I only have 4,100HP with MoW, Fort, AND the imp buff no amount of healing, potions, or health stones was going to save me. He then goes around to all the DPSers and does the same thing. An he's fast! He went all the way across the courtyard before I could pop a mana shield. Sol also said he was out of range before he could get a taunt off. Once the DPS was down it was only a matter of time. Just for illustration, check out the following pictures:

    http://www.maassfamily.net/wow/scree...rcaster_01.jpg
    http://www.maassfamily.net/wow/scree...rcaster_02.jpg

    Note the red and green numbers up by my portrait. The red is the incoming DPS I took at the time of death.

    We never did finish him off but I think we now know the basic tactics that will work.

    After we ported back to org we were discussing it a bit more over Vent. Sol had a great idea we should try next time. Because Venoxis moves so fast and got out of range before Sol could taunt, he suggested keeping a warrior in with ranged DPS to pick him up when he goes for the casters.

    In addition to his frightful damage to cloth and leather wearers, the green AE cloud was a major source of problems for the melee classes. It's very similar to the disease cloud from the plauged ghouls in Scholo but MUCH more intense. There is a short cast animation just before he spews it but most people weren't picking it up. Heck, even when I was dead and had nothing to do but watch the fight it was still hard to see coming. As a result we had people standing in the cloud too long and dying very quickly. For this portion of the fight the tanks are standing toe-to-toe with him and keeping him stationary, then moving when someone calls out that the cloud has been cast. Here I'm wondering how feasible it is for the tanks to keep him moving throughout the fight. Maybe work him in a big counter-clockwise circle around the bonfire? I'm woefully ignorant of the mechanics of a tank's stance dance so I'm not sure if that's possible. If we can, it would ensure that no one was in the cloud for more than a second or two.

    Anyway, I thought the instance went pretty well up to Venoxis. And, heck, I even had fun fighting him despite the wipes. We had 2 druids, 1 priest, and 3 shaman. Being the sole mage and sole priest was a little rough on the ol' reagent supplies and mana since we each had four groups to buff after each wipe. The cost is trivial but at 3400mana/buff and the fact I went through 30 arcane powder means I spent 102,000 mana just on buffs. That's a lot of butt-time. We could have used one more priest and either more rogues or mages. The warlocks CoE and CoS helped a lot, too. As did the new 16-slot debuff change in 1.7. Oh, and Rawz' repair bot was sorely needed so thanks for bringing one!

    GG, though. We'll get him next time.

  2. #2
    Here is my take.

    DW gets really really really high on his hate list to the point where he is not dropping off until he is dead. Once DW is dead, the boss hits the next on his list, which is going to probably be the mage(s), because we were doing all ranged DPS. He pretty much one shots every DPS class, he was hitting me for over 5k each time he hit me.

    I'm trying to figure out what happened exactly, he either really starts to lay down the hate in snake form or our main healer on DW was /oom (I'm thinking oom, but I'm not sure until Duer tells me). Two things happen really quickly. The MT doesn't slowly die. The healers get behind on him (again I think this was a mana issue, but I didn't hear anything on vent, so didn't really change the way I was healing DW), and then once he's under half health it's pretty much over for the MT. Once our MT goes down (which always seemed abrupt), he moves really fast, to the point where I don't think the second tank has teh ability to taunt, and he starts to go through his hate list. Mage, rogues, healers, etc. The healers were basically just trying to keep the tanks up at that point, and without dps no amount of tank healing is going to save us.

    So as I was logging off, we were discussing planting a tank by the casters to taunt. I think that would pretty much solve the problem. IMO when this happens 1 of 2 things need to happen. The tank either needs to move him back to the fire or the ranged heals and dps need to move there so we don't scatter and the tanks end up chasing him around. I got all fired up to share what I had to say that I see this duplicates what War said. :)

    Last thought that was brought up, is we may need to do a healer rotation the MT and second tank. That probably solves the healing issue if Duer was going oom.

    I think the next time we beat him np.
    Last edited by Muddus; 2005-09-16 at 07:32 AM.

  3. #3
    How about 2 MT Taunt-Pong?

    2 tanks, keeping him by the bonfire, constantly trading Taunts on him.
    I did it for the lulz.

  4. #4
    I could be completely wrong here, too, but I think we might have just had a bad class mix. We had LOTS of tanks and a good number of healers, which is awesome, but that fight seems to come down to damage.

    We're really close to it, and I look forward to a couple months from now when we go in a squish him like the worthless insect he is on our way to bigger and better things.

    HPV is now my Official Bitch! Let's show him what that means. King Gordok knows!
    Myrcaus - Death Knight, Scribe
    Myrcinstatos - Warlock, Elixir Master

  5. #5
    I think that 26,200 number is WAY incorrect. When the 4 snakes go down, I'm at about 3/4 mana and I start unloading on him. My nukes hit for anything from about 550 to 1500. I do this til I'm oom, and then start burning down my imp which, by the time I do it twice, almost gives me another full mana bar. I counted up hits after that time we got him to 8% and I'd done around 14,000 damage all by myself, and I know Warcaster, Myrc, and probably a few others certainly did more damage than I did. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that 26,200 was supposed to be 262,000 or so.

    Unk

  6. #6
    I have to agree, 26K sounds WAY too low. Then again, he heals himself constantly during the fight... so... IDK.

    I still have my DMeter up from last night, I'll check total damage from all players. That will give us some idea of how much damage we did in ZG overall. 26K is only 5x more than a Strat trash mob, though, and ... just sounds low.
    Myrcaus - Death Knight, Scribe
    Myrcinstatos - Warlock, Elixir Master

  7. #7
    Well regardless of the outcome, I had a freaking blast (as usual with this crew)! I know my reagent/repair bill isn't as bad as some, but I'd rather pay some gold after dying than loose an incredible amount of xp...such as the case in EQ. A tad off topic, but before I left I held the body count in Fear for my guild...sure it was fun learning to pull the zone as a dr00d, but I ended up loosing over half a lvl that night alone, even after the good xp saving rez's. There's no group of people I'd rather be laying next to, watching Death steal my wallet, than you guys! I'd rather make up the money than xp.

    Anyway, back on topic :) I think a problem with last night was the lack of ranged DPS as well. Our tactics were great, and with what we had for make up I think we rocked out. Another mage and I think we could have taken him down.

    I like the idea of having a tank in the caster group for quick taunt once (and if) the MT goes down and he starts wailing on the casters. I'm all for trying the ping pong method using two tanks as well. I like experimentation though so 8 mages, some healing, and 2/3 tanks sound like fun to me to heh heh. :D

    I'm somewhat inclined to agree with Unka that maybe there is a typo with his hp's or something 'cause there was some good damage going at him the whole time and it was still a somewhat long fight. I doubt he's that resistive to all the stuff we were throwing at him either. Then again, I'm not possitive since my attention was solely on keeping people alive. :)
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  8. #8
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    I agree it seemed really low. I'm going off the numbers CTMod reports on the portrait (see my screenshots for reference.) I was getting loads of non-crit hits for over 1,000 dmg. At that rate with only 26k HP I should have been able to nuke him down by myself with 1 tank and a 1 healer. So there's obviously more to the story than that.

  9. #9
    I a mod that tries to determine actual hit point numbers and overlays them (current/total) on the hit point bar. It's not 100% accurate, but its accuracy improves the more you fight the same mob or mob type.

    He's got more like two hundred sixty thousand hit points.
    I did it for the lulz.

  10. #10
    I have 1 concern for a ping pong method and that is, it would now require the healers to heal 2 tanks and the issues that coule pop up with trying to have 2 tanks ping poing AND move out of the cloud as needed.

    Maybe it's not a big deal, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

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