Mage at Level 32 and On: Fire or Frost?

[Turak]

I've leveled a mage up to 32 using a blend of fire and arcane talents (see link below). I plan on getting arcane up through Presence of Mind, then adding more in the fire tree.

Current fire/arcane build talents at level 32:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

I have typical mix of blues and greens and +fire and +spell damage where possible (at about +59 or so). Burst damage is insane and single targets drop quickly, but grinding does tend to require more drinking than I prefer.

Now, the beckoning call of frost is very tempting and it seems that it may be more mana efficient. I actually like the versatility of the frost tree and the "DoT clearing" and "take a second to reconsider" aspects of Ice Block. I have a nice stash of +frost and +spell damage gear for about +62 damage.

Here are my thoughts for the first 21 talent points into the frost tree:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...50031023001000

Any suggestions about my wavering from fire to frost? Is my fire build ok? What about my frost build? If I do go frost, what is recommended?

Also keep in mind, I will start PvPing more and more as I level up. Finally, since respeccing is at 10g now, I would like to keep experimentation to a minimum.

[Dradius]

I have my mage at 39 and all fire...he is fun for PvP and PvE but yeah i do alot of drinking.
I will be interested on what people say....i have thought about respeccing him some but the damage is insane.

Mordy

[Thwak]

There are many posts on the mage forums that go into much greater detail but the short version is that once you have enough +damage gear then ice will serve you better. Up until that point you are better off with arcane/fire.

I am not sure what 'enough' entails but I would guess it to be around +300 or more damage to rival a fire build in DPS. You also gain survivability and control.

I believe the logic behind this has to do with two ice talents - Shatter (60% crit against frozen targets) and the other lower tier talent that allows your ice crits to hit for 200% damage as opposed to the 150% that other spells get. There is also the next to top tier talent that gives you 45% more Cone of Cold damage.

What you end up with is something like...

Frostbolt (15% chance to freeze target)

If frozen then Frostbolt again for 60% (+gear crit%) crit chance.

Once target in melee range Frost Nova

Once Frozen from Frost Nova use Cone of Cold (60%= crit chance and 45% more damage applied after crit calculation)

At this point you still have Blink, Ice Block and Coldsnap (10 minute timer). If you use Coldsnap you can repeat the above again. So you have many options available yet and can repeat this every time Frost Nova is up (or sooner with Coldsnap). This is where the control comes from.

The 31 point talent in the Ice tree is fun (~900 bubble talent - couple minute cooldown) but not neccessary. IMO you are far better going 30 in Ice and 21 in Arcane for Instant Arcane Explosion and Presence of Mind.

Overall though it is hard to beat the raw damage of an Instant Pyro with Arcane Power but given the high crit chance and extra 50% damage done by crits it can be done with enough +damage and also costs less mana and is less cooldown dependant... unless you are a fiend with Coldsnap. Iceblock is VERY cool in PvP.

[Mak]

Full frost lets you AoE grind with safety. I'm back to ice for now though I will miss rolling ignites. Something about 36yd hamstrings on people makes me laugh... :mischievo

[Warcaster]

I figured you were back to frost when I saw you throwing frostbolts further back than I was on Geddon last night. ;)

[Mak]

Here's the build for now...


Yea, I guess Geddon didn't like it much because he came to visit me shortly after Rynd died that first attempt. I could have ice blocked but that would have shed aggro on a healer probably. I decided to sit tight and see if anyone was going to be able to grab him.

[Turak]

Here's the build for now...

I assume the Improved Cone of Cold benefits outweigh the mana efficiency of Frost Channeling for a level 60 with PvPing in mind, but does that hold true prior to 60? In other words, is saving 15% on every frost spell a better value for leveling than the 35% CoC damage boost and does this only matter for AoE frost grinding?

Permafrost and Winter's Chill are similar: one affecting duration, the other slowed-by amount. I would think that Permafrost would be better slightly, but any comments are welcome.

Your cleverly allocated points in the arcane tree show the value of PvE and PvP experience--I will model mine the same. (Nothing more annoying than a resisted polymorph!)

[Nom]

didnt read what anyone else posted cause I dont really care, put all points into frost . Best way to get to 60.

[Mak]

Well 2 points in Winter's chill slows targets down to a walk on frost bolts. 3 points would make CoC an ae 40% snare. The only more effective snare that I'm aware of is the rogue Crippling poison v2 for 30% snare. 3 points in permafrost means the nasty snare lasts the whole duration (10s) for CoC unless removed. You want frost channeling for blizzard.

Poly usually doesn't get resisted but those points ensure that it lasts for full duration.

[Nom]

the blizzard snare is the best , if you want to power lvl put points into
imprved blizzard. I miss frost spec, but I LOVE 2 shotting paladins