Principle of Unintended Consequences

[Shizma]

I had Aessina put the Battlemaster enchant on my tank sword a couple of days ago. My motive was to use the healing procs to increase target threat. Well. It did that. But Oh My!

We took a group into Mech Wednesday evening, I entirely forgot about the enchant. Ag control was tighter than wihtout the enchant, so the primary objective was met.

BUT. When we reported healing done, Shizmatic was # 2 on a list that included Morckt and Myrkris. To be totally honest, Morckt was doing DPS, so his healing was expectedly low.

Shiz healed for over 247,000 hp for the run. 27% of total healing.

I can see this enchant being a huge help for our healers. I strongly suggest it for MT's because we're constantly in melee, but it's certainly something for sword rogues to consider on one or both of their weapons.

Very, very handy. First decent blade enchant I've seen since Crusader before it was nerfed.

[Myrkris]

Wow, not bad. BTW, that's logging a ton of overhealing, I routinely saw procs with zero actually healed. It'll really be the shit in raids and other fights where a lot of people are taking damage, though.

[Shizma]

Overhealing is of no consequence to threat.
So I better never have an empty life bar because someone is worried about overhealing :)

Fixed.

[Mudsloth]

would it proc off a druid in a form or does that not count as using the melee weapon? My cat form attacks really fast plut I already have leader of the pack which heals off of crits.

[Myrkris]

For tanks especially, the overhealing is a bonus since it tends to produce threat. Even more so since there's no mana efficiency loss from the sword proc. Very handy indeed.

You might want to check into the "overhealing produces threat" part of that, since only the points actually healed add to threat for everyone else. From WoWwiki (http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Aggro): " Healing .5x healing done (overheal ignored)"

[Shizma]

would it proc off a druid in a form or does that not count as using the melee weapon? My cat form attacks really fast plut I already have leader of the pack which heals off of crits.

Pretty sure it's chance on hit, meaning you'd have to be using the weapon. Not just a proc on equip thing. I could try it, using a different weapon to see what happens. I'll try tonight.

[Aessina]

You might want to check into the "overhealing produces threat" part of that, since only the points actually healed add to threat for everyone else. From WoWwiki (http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Aggro): " Healing .5x healing done (overheal ignored)"

Yeah, overhealing produces no threat. It would be trivial for a paladin to grab aggro otherwise (even with the nerf/buff to our healing threat).

[Myrkris]

By the way, that 247,000 healed also includes Earth Shield. I'd also like to know how whatever damage metering program you're using counts healing from totems, since Healing Stream totem puts out quite a bit of healing these days.

[Shizma]

Please recall I said "tends to produce threat" not "does produce threat". I do nuance my words a bit, and generally mean things exactly as they're said. I infer very little. Too direct a person for that.

All of that aside. It generates threat by healing in addition to the tank threat tools we use, making it very effective. Add to that the benefit to the group, and it is still probably the best weapon enchant available for raiding and instancing because of its ability to support the group, assist the healing classes, and generate supplemental healing ag. Nice to have.

IMO since Burning Crusade, discussions about hypothetical over-healing are obsolete. The tank either survives with the raid, or dies and the raid wipes. In MOST cases, when I have dropped in an instance, I have gone from near full health to dead in one or two back-to-back hits. This could be an interesting discussion, but I don't think I want to derail this thread.

Battlemaster is a kick-butt enchant.

[Shizma]

By the way, that 247,000 healed also includes Earth Shield. I'd also like to know how whatever damage metering program you're using counts healing from totems, since Healing Stream totem puts out quite a bit of healing these days.

Earth shield reports as healing on me, and you are correct, it is probably a part of that total. Healing stream reports as a pet. As long as your damage meter is set in the options to include pet damage/healing as your own, it will report in your total.

Shiz did 247000 total healing. That was a combination of Battlemaster, probably Earth Shield, and a proc I get from shield blocks from my Figurine of the Colossus. The shield proc doesn't account for much because it has a 20 second duration and a 2 minute cooldown.

[Aessina]

For tanks especially, the overhealing is a bonus since it tends to produce threat.

This is what we have a problem with. Overhealing doesn't tend to produce any threat because it produces absolutely 0 threat every single time. Get rid of that comment and we're all on the same page :)

[Myrkris]

Please recall I said "tends to produce threat" not "does produce threat". I do nuance my words a bit, and generally mean things exactly as they're said. I infer very little. Too direct a person for that.

All of that aside. It generates threat by healing in addition to the tank threat tools we use, making it very effective. Add to that the benefit to the group, and it is still probably the best weapon enchant available for raiding and instancing because of its ability to support the group, assist the healing classes, and generate supplemental healing ag. Nice to have.

IMO since Burning Crusade, discussions about hypothetical over-healing are obsolete. The tank either survives with the raid, or dies and the raid wipes. In MOST cases, when I have dropped in an instance, I have gone from near full health to dead in one or two back-to-back hits. This could be aninteresting discussion, but I don't think I want to derail this thread.

Battlemaster is a kick-butt enchant.

Um, if overhealing doesn't produce threat, then "tends to produce threat" is still incorrect. Healing DOES produce threat, Overhealing DOES NOT produce threat, so in either case there is no "tendency" at work. :)

That doesn't mean the enchant isn't a good enchant, but it didn't do nearly as much healing itself as you thought, nor is it that much of an aggro magnet. Every bit of both aggro and healing do help, but the most aggro this proc will generate is 750 and that is only if everyone in your party is damaged and it does max healing on everyone.

EDIT: By the way, healing aggro is also split between every mob engaged, which is why healers get crushed by Bog Lords that get kited away, or by mobs that were CC'd for a long period during the fight.

[Myrcaus]

Can it crit? I've seen several healing effects/procs that don't appear to, so I'm curious. Seems like you got a decent sample size.

[Myrkris]

Good question on the crits. I didn't see any, but I didn't notice it proccing all that often and usually had other things on my mind.

[Shizma]

Um, if overhealing doesn't produce threat, then "tends to produce threat" is still incorrect. Healing DOES produce threat, Overhealing DOES NOT produce threat, so in either case there is no "tendency" at work. :)

That doesn't mean the enchant isn't a good enchant, but it didn't do nearly as much healing itself as you thought, nor is it that much of an aggro magnet. Every bit of both aggro and healing do help, but the most aggro this proc will generate is 750 and that is only if everyone in your party is damaged and it does max healing on everyone.

EDIT: By the way, healing aggro is also split between every mob engaged, which is why healers get crushed by Bog Lords that get kited away, or by mobs that were CC'd for a long period during the fight.

Fixed the concern about threat generating aggro. Also injected a bit of flame. TBC requires new tanking and healing strategies. Something to think about. Srategies that were adequate for MC don't fit our "new normal".

Also, if healing aggro is spread over the entire group as you say, which is true, then the healing done by the enchant, which heals the entire group, is transferring the entire groups threat from healing to me, yes?

[Myrcaus]

Group heals are a little different (and it would be treated as a group heal). You total up the amount healed and then divide it among the mobs engaged; which makes sense given how healing threat works.

So it's no question Battlemaster is beneficial in a couple ways; you heal the group and the threat generated helps keep the mob on you. Win/Win.

[Shizma]

Kind of where I started out :) The thread was just to say that it's killer enchant and worth the cost of the materials, not that it would ever take the place of our even MORE killer healers!

This was our first experience with the enchant, so I probably over-stated things a bit, but by all appearances it did a substantial amount of healing.

Mats include 2 void crystals. Don't panic :) I can tailor and dis-enchant epic items. The mats are a bit ticklish, but it's 2 crystals per purple. Need two for the enchant, so shouldn't be much of a problem. I DE'd my Frozen Shadoweave Shoulders to get my two.

[Aessina]

Fixed the concern about threat generating aggro. Also injected a bit of flame. TBC requires new tanking and healing strategies. Something to think about. Srategies that were adequate for MC don't fit our "new normal".

Also, if healing aggro is spread over the entire group as you say, which is true, then the healing done by the enchant, which heals the entire group, is transferring the entire groups threat from healing to me, yes?

No.

Let's assume you heal everyone in the group for 300. That gets you 150 threat from each person in your group.

Let's assume you're fighting 3 mobs and have a full group (ie 5 people). You'll get 750 threat from healing your entire group by 300 health each. That's divided between the 3 mobs. So 250 threat per mob.

Had you only been fighting one mob, you would have gained 750 threat on that one mob.

[Potpie]

This was our first experience with the enchant, so I probably over-stated things a bit, but by all appearances it did a substantial amount of healing.

I love to exaggerate too Shiz - but as much as we like to soar with artificially puffed out chests & pride, there are plenty here who will open up with the quad .50 cal and make sure we crash and burn. ;)

[Shizma]

No.

Let's assume you heal everyone in the group for 300. That gets you 150 threat from each person in your group.

Let's assume you're fighting 3 mobs and have a full group (ie 5 people). You'll get 750 threat from healing your entire group by 300 health each. That's divided between the 3 mobs. So 250 threat per mob.

Had you only been fighting one mob, you would have gained 750 threat on that one mob.

Phalanx for the loss PP :( .....

We are arguing the same point Aess. By healing the group, I generate threat. The threat is spread over all the mobs that are attacking, and is directed to me. The numerical value is meaningful theoretically, but doesn't significantly change the outcome. The point is that by giving the tank a means to do some group healing, it's helping improve threat generation by the tank, and direct it to the tank. That means that in group pulls, where multiple mobs are very loosely held by the tank and easily pulled away, the enchant proc is generating heal/# of mobs threat on the tank with each proc.

If you consider that sunder only applies about 250 (?) threat per application, for three mobs, the tank is getting as much threat generated as if he had sundered each one. That's substantial. If it procs five times during a fight, it would generate almost as much threat as five sunders. That's worthwhile.

I tend to be a broad-stroke person Aess. Your assertion is absolutely correct, and the math is better than mine.

My point remains. The proc heals, it does significant healing, and improves tank threat generation. No more. No less :) No more than that.

[Myrcaus]

Let's assume you heal everyone in the group for 300. That gets you 150 threat from each person in your group.
This assumes the healing from Battlemaster is halved; which is a good assumption. I wonder, though, if it's not also treated like paladin heals, and halved again.

I still think it's a wonderful aggro generator, as long as the people in the tank's group are damaged enough to benefit from it.

Yet another good reason for warlocks to invest in Demonic Aegis - your Fel Armor healing bonus will help the tank generate threat from his Battlemaster chant! =)

[Ryndstrum]

I've been told that the Mongoose would be better than the Battlemaster enchant. Mongoose procs with 120 Agility and slightly faster attack speak. That works out to 240 armor with the Agility buff, I think, which equals roughly 120 HP. Battlemaster can heal up to 300 hp, so for a tank's TTL, it's clearly "better", even with an occasional self overheal. The additional aggro gen is icing on the cake.

DPS melee would want the Mongoose enchant (drops off Moroes, so another shot at it tonight), since it will add 2% attack speed and almost 3-6% additional crit (crit chance varies depending on class).

Got the mats together for the Battlemaster enchant (except for 1 primal water, expect to get that off the AH tonight), will be adding this for the Kara run tonight...

[Aessina]

This assumes the healing from Battlemaster is halved; which is a good assumption. I wonder, though, if it's not also treated like paladin heals, and halved again.

I still think it's a wonderful aggro generator, as long as the people in the tank's group are damaged enough to benefit from it.

Yet another good reason for warlocks to invest in Demonic Aegis - your Fel Armor healing bonus will help the tank generate threat from his Battlemaster chant! =)

There are only 3 heal spells in the game that I know of that receives .25 threat per point healed. Holy Shock, Holy Light and Flash of Light. The Draenei racial is .5 threat per point healed. None of the paladins I've talked to know of any clickies or anything that causes as low threat as our spells. So it's a safe assumption :)

[Myrcaus]

There's some kind of nerf buzz on PTR about Battlemaster, I've been wondering if it isn't a threat modifier. The proc rate and amount healed seem the same, so far.

[Myrkris]

There's some kind of nerf buzz on PTR about Battlemaster, I've been wondering if it isn't a threat modifier. The proc rate and amount healed seem the same, so far.

What are they reporting as the proc rate?

[Myrcaus]

"The same as it was". I haven't found hard numbers yet, info is sketchy.

[Myrkris]

From Thottbot (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=58977):

"I threw this on a Suneater last night, ran the ProcWatch addon for 90 minutes and found that the enchant procs once a minute (e.g. 90 procs over 90 minutes).

The proc will sometimes kick up an extra proc or two in a single minute - however then it will go for a couple of minutes and not proc at all.

I have not personally tested this enchant in a 10m / 25m raid situation, however it is my understanding that this enchant will only proc for yourself and the four other members of your immeadiate party (not the entire raid as is suggested above).

From the amount of threat that I'm generating in addons such as KTM as well as from what I'm reading on the forum boards, this enchant will also help you maintain aggro in a raid parties where the other four members of your immeadiate party are within range of the proc.

The best use of this enchant on a weapon in my opionion) is on a defensive weapon by a tank in a raid situation where extra healing and threat generation are desired. I would recommend Moongoose instead if your looking for an enchant to compliment a high dps dealing weapon with +hit or +crit on it or if your a prot spec tank that plans to use a weapon for both tanking AND dual weilding."

[Ryndstrum]

Hmm, thinking further, Mongoose is probably much better than Battlemaster.

Battlemaster heals, proc over. But Mongoose procs, it lasts 15 seconds. That's an additional 240 armor for 15 seconds, which would be just like an additional 120 HP for 15 seconds. The bonus a warrior gets from a proc includes slightly faster attacks (more aggro), higher crit chance (and if you manage to crit in those 15 seconds, more aggro), and higher dodge (more avoidance). The faster you are getting hit by a mob(s) or boss, the more Mongoose benefits a tank, since you get the mitigation effect with every hit you take.

Still getting the Battlemaster enchant, but once we have someone in guild with Mongoose, will switch over to that enchant.

[Schlechter]

Rynd I have a Primal Water. Don't buy it...hit me up tonite. Or I can mail.

[Shizma]

Hmm, thinking further, Mongoose is probably much better than Battlemaster.

Battlemaster heals, proc over. But Mongoose procs, it lasts 15 seconds. That's an additional 240 armor for 15 seconds, which would be just like an additional 120 HP for 15 seconds.

We can compare notes and see how it goes. I was impressed with being able to assist the healers to help cut their load down.


The best use of this enchant on a weapon in my opionion) is on a defensive weapon by a tank in a raid situation where extra healing and threat generation are desired. I would recommend Moongoose instead if your looking for an enchant to compliment a high dps dealing weapon with +hit or +crit on it or if your a prot spec tank that plans to use a weapon for both tanking AND dual weilding.

I pretty much see this as a definition of the tank mission, eh? In my personal tanking strategy, I don't see Shiz as doing anything BUT defensive combat in tank mode. He has a miserable 150-175 DPS rate max in def with tank gear. In DPS gear with the two-hander he can do about 245-270 and that's it.

[Myrcaus]

Mongoose might benefit the tank more directly, but Battlemaster is a better force multiplier. The same is true of all the "group" enchants.

I'm still looking at Spellsurge for one or more of our healers/buffers - that one looks just hax (and is still good post-patch).

[Sol]

Mongoose might benefit the tank more directly, but Battlemaster is a better force multiplier. The same is true of all the "group" enchants.



Mongoose gives more armor more avoidance (+dodge) That is over 5% to dodge for 15 seconds! It procs a lot.

Mongoose is a force multiplier as well, if you consider that it will help the healers do their job better. If the healers are doing their job more efficiently, then that means they have mana left over to heal the dps classes, which means shorter boss fights, which means we win more often against curator.

I carefully considered battlemaster vs. mongoose. I chose mongoose -- not because I wanted to do big dps, but because I wanted excellent mitigation.

[Ryndstrum]

As I continue to dive into 25-man thinking, I keep looking at the armor/stam factor more and more. Aggro control is becoming less and less important. I know how to get aggro and keep it. I'm more interested in boss fights, where the warrior is almost always going one on one with a boss. Aggro on boss fights is easy to keep once you have it, barring some of the crazy aggro wipe bosses. Aggro control keeps slipping further and further down my list of concerns.

Battlemaster does have the group component, and so long as the other 4 members are close by, it helps them as well as yourself. Not something I should dismiss easily. But thinking about boss fights, positioning in relation to your other party members plays a role. How many party members are going to be in range of the proc (not sure how big the range is, not seen anything on it), epscially if adds force additional seperation. The benefit is situational, and it is hard to achieve maximum benefit all the time with overheals added to the mix.

Looking to 25-man content, it's far more important to maximize my Time To Live as a tank. The Mongoose enchant has a very predictable benefit. With the incoming damage constant, and healing on the tank constant, Mongoose will reduce that damage stream just a bit for 15 seconds vs. a single instant heal from Battlemaster. That 15 seconds of mitigation should easily reduce incoming damage by more than 300 hit points, thus making Mongoose a better tank choice over Battlemaster.

The mitigation Mongoose provides is not much, mind you, but it is another way to extend that all so important Time To Live that tanking has become all about.

[Shizma]

I made a comment about this Time to Live thing in the warrior thread, will repeat it here.

There is a debate in BC, Live Longer vs Kill Faster. On net it's the same thing. Which is more correct? You have to live long enough to kill the mob (sustainability), but you have to kill fast enough to get the job done before the OOM lights go on.

Is there a right/wrong position?

[Byomage]

Hmmm, personally I'd use Battlemaster in 5man, as it requires less micromanagement to apply threat. Mongoose's added threat from damage/armor buff/speed buff is single target (ideal for raid tanking/boss tanking), unless I misunderstood the proc. Though I do remember reading somewhere that more armor = more threat...

I'm still learning pally hax, though AoE/multi-swing threat generation seems to be the heart of pally AoE tanking.

[Ryndstrum]

I made a comment about this Time to Live thing in the warrior thread, will repeat it here.

There is a debate in BC, Live Longer vs Kill Faster. On net it's the same thing. Which is more correct? You have to live long enough to kill the mob (sustainability), but you have to kill fast enough to get the job done before the OOM lights go on.

Is there a right/wrong position?

TTL, no question. Casters should generally be able to go all out without fear of aggro. Maybe trash mobs are pulled off more than one likes, but that's usually because the tank is juggling 2-3 of them. But one on one, especially with 10-15 seconds before everyone else starts, it would be extremely difficult for aggro to be lost unless slacking on the aggro tools (which I am guilty of sometimes during "easy" fights).

Anecdotally, I ran Black Morass once with Jabber (a warlock, geared out as far as pre-Kara could go). He went as hard as he could damage-wise on each portal "mini-boss", and managed to steal aggro ~40-50% of the time. Usually he got aggro when he had back to back crits, or I had back-to-back misses on big aggro abilities. Now he did start hitting the mob as soon as I started tanking (sometimes just before). Maybe Battlemaster would have helped, dropping it to ~35-45% aggro steal. But if I had even 6 seconds before he started, without Battlemaster, I'm confident that number would drop to under 10%.

That's an extreme example, and every fight is different. The point is, so long as I keep aggro as a focus, I will generally never lose it, especially if I have a small head start. With the usualy huge aggro gap between myself and the rest of the group or raid, everyone is already able to go all out DPS, Battlemaster as an additional aggro generator to allow the all out DPS is "wasted". Leaving TTL as the obvious choice to shoot for as a tank.

[Aessina]

Increasing TTL is also necessary to avoid "spike-death".

[Shizma]

TTL, no question. Casters should generally be able to go all out without fear of aggro....

...That's an extreme example, and every fight is different. The point is, so long as I keep aggro as a focus, I will generally never lose it, especially if I have a small head start. With the usualy huge aggro gap between myself and the rest of the group or raid, everyone is already able to go all out DPS, Battlemaster as an additional aggro generator to allow the all out DPS is "wasted". Leaving TTL as the obvious choice to shoot for as a tank.

I am not sure the answer is that black and white. Ultimately, if the tank lives longer than the rest of the group, it's a wipe. If the tank dies before the rest of the group, it's a wipe. I think it needs to be both.Live longer, kill faster.

See :) We got off track.

Battlemaster is still an excellent choice, apparently one of two with Mongoose. Does anyone in the guild have the Mongoose enchant?

[Aessina]

I am not sure the answer is that black and white. Ultimately, if the tank lives longer than the rest of the group, it's a wipe. If the tank dies before the rest of the group, it's a wipe. I think it needs to be both.Live longer, kill faster.

See :) We got off track.

Battlemaster is still an excellent choice, apparently one of two with Mongoose. Does anyone in the guild have the Mongoose enchant?

Not yet, cross your fingers for us tonight. It drops from Moroes.

[Shizma]

The more I think about this, the more I think there must be something wrong with the data. Damage meters reported 247,000 total healing. Obviously a bunch.

Myrkris had Earthshield on me a lot. But even if it was on continuously, it would have only healed for about 25000 HP. At a once per minute proc rate using an average 240 HP per heal, over ninety minutes the average heal rate of this thing should only have been 108000. I can only account for 133000 HP of heals attrributed to Shiz. Where did the other 114000 hp come from?

Good luck tonight all! Hope you have a good run. I will either be in Bot earning rep, or farming quest gold.

[Myrcaus]

I think it needs to be both.Live longer, kill faster.

Agreed, but I don't consider it the MT's job to help kill faster. Anything that can be added there on top of your survivability is a bonus, but the DPS load should be primarily on those raid slots that make it their main function.

[Myrkris]

The more I think about this, the more I think there must be something wrong with the data. Damage meters reported 247,000 total healing. Obviously a bunch.

Myrkris had Earthshield on me a lot. But even if it was on continuously, it would have only healed for about 25000 HP. At a once per minute proc rate using an average 240 HP per heal, over ninety minutes the average heal rate of this thing should only have been 108000. I can only account for 133000 HP of heals attrributed to Shiz. Where did the other 114000 hp come from?

Good luck tonight all! Hope you have a good run. I will either be in Bot earning rep, or farming quest gold.

Huh? Dude, Earthshield was healing you 2-4k per fight. You were blowing 8-10 charges from it each fight, at 270 base healed per charge. I refreshed it in the middle of fights when I could, including big pulls and boss fights. It'll trigger every 10 seconds or so when you're being melee'd, so that is accounting for the vast majority of any healing you're doing IF (which is an assumption) you get credit for healing done by Earthshield.

[Myrcaus]

The message, I believe, comes out "MainTank's Earth Shield heals MainTank for X", so DM would credit the heals to the MT.

[Myrkris]

BTW, just to clarify, I don't know the exact cooldown on Earth Shield but it is between 6 and 10 seconds. I'll check it in a few minutes, when I log in to farm some motes. Earth Shield also benefits from the +healing of the shaman who cast the spell, but I don't know the exact formula. I'll check that out as well, since I can easily compare with melee and with healing gear sets equipped. I'll post my findings in the Shaman discussion forum, to keep the info more readily available.

Also, the first charge of Earth Shield is virtually always wasted, since it triggers on the mobs first hit so the tank is normally still full on health at that time. Earth Shield procs take place before damage for a hit is assessed, based on observing Earth Shield triggering for 0 actual healed on a hit that does damage.

[Shizma]

Huh? Dude, Earthshield was healing you 2-4k per fight. You were blowing 8-10 charges from it each fight, at 270 base healed per charge. I refreshed it in the middle of fights when I could, including big pulls and boss fights. It'll trigger every 10 seconds or so when you're being melee'd, so that is accounting for the vast majority of any healing you're doing IF (which is an assumption) you get credit for healing done by Earthshield.


?? Seriously? Does the earthshield get the +heal buff that you rcast spells get then? Only reason I ask is what I posted up from Thott about it earlier. If so, that's HUGE!

Earth Shield (Rank 3)900 Mana40 yd rangeInstant castProtects the target with an earthen shield, giving a 30% chance of ignoring spell interruption when damaged and causing melee attacks to heal the shielded target for 270. This effect can only occur once every few seconds. 10 charges. Lasts 10 min. Earth Shield can only be placed on one target at a time and only one Elemental Shield can be active on a target at a time.

http://www.thottbot.com/s32594

Which is where I came up with the calc. 270 HP per hit, ten hits/charges, ten minute cooldown, ninety miinute fight. But you know what you saw. So that says that shaman +heal bonus affects things like this also then?

Ah! From your post, ten second cooldown, ten minute life! As soon as it burns out, you can recast it.

That explains it.
Question answered.

[Shizma]

Agreed, but I don't consider it the MT's job to help kill faster. Anything that can be added there on top of your survivability is a bonus, but the DPS load should be primarily on those raid slots that make it their main function.

Very very true, but it's a matter of pride for tanks to be able to hold aggro when the casters light up the target. I see it as a personal failure if I lose aggro ona cast. Kind of one of those "hey noob, learn2tank" moments.

Edit: Which is to say it needs to be both. The DPS'ers need to kill the mob just as fast as possible, and the tank needs to live for the duration of the fight w/o overtaxing the healers and getting an OOM call. One of the reasons for my prejudice toward the Battlemaster enchant isn't that it's superior to or inferior to Mongoose. Just that it has a direct impact on the amount of healing done, so a direct impact on the amount of mana used to cast heals.

[Myrkris]

?? Seriously? Does the earthshield get the +heal buff that you rcast spells get then? Only reason I ask is what I posted up from Thott about it earlier. If so, that's HUGE!

Earth Shield (Rank 3)900 Mana40 yd rangeInstant castProtects the target with an earthen shield, giving a 30% chance of ignoring spell interruption when damaged and causing melee attacks to heal the shielded target for 270. This effect can only occur once every few seconds. 10 charges. Lasts 10 min. Earth Shield can only be placed on one target at a time and only one Elemental Shield can be active on a target at a time.

http://www.thottbot.com/s32594

Which is where I came up with the calc. 270 HP per hit, ten hits/charges, ten minute cooldown, ninety miinute fight. But you know what you saw. So that says that shaman +heal bonus affects things like this also then?

Ah! From your post, ten second cooldown, ten minute life! As soon as it burns out, you can recast it.

That explains it.
Question answered.


Yup. :) Got my test interrupted by a phone call, so will post results a bit later...