Motes of Fire

[Shizma]

Would like to beg the indulgence of anyone with Motes of Fire. It appears that there is a minor issue with the blacksmithing craft, that the drop rates for Motes of Fire is disproprionate to the design of the crafted items that use it.

I am crafting several adamantite pieces for our warriors to wear up to lvl 70 for leveling and questing, and there is an abundance of ore, and abundance of motes of earth, but a real paucity of motes of fire. If you have some, could you please forward? I will gladly trade any one of a number of primal shadow, draenite of various colors etc. for it.

For reference, Primal Fire is at 30 gold each right now on the AH... takes six per breastplate, four per bracers, six per gloves....

[Potpie]

Ugh!

I expect (hope) Blizz will tweak it - until then, I love that word paucity!

:lmao:

[Moozipan]

Got 10 of these in 15 minutes of duoing last night in Skald. Has anyone tried farming for them this way, as opposed to just mining for them?

Note - I have to come up with *40* of each kind for my alchemy specialization.

[Myrkris]

Got 10 of these in 15 minutes of duoing last night in Skald. Has anyone tried trying for them this way, as opposed to just mining for them?

While I haven't tried that particular source, I've noticed that a fair number of motes of various sorts drop off mobs so that may well be a better source.

[Moozipan]

Sounds like a great guild farming event! One of the best times I had in game was the day we camped Crusader.

[Redgar]

Once you are 70 and have a flying mount there is a spot called the Elemental Plateau, above and east of the Throne of Elements in Nagrand that has nothing but elementals, levels 69-71, for all your (elemental) mote needs.

[Clypheous]

Once you are 70 and have a flying mount there is a spot called the Elemental Plateau, above and east of the Throne of Elements in Nagrand that has nothing but elementals, levels 69-71, for all your (elemental) mote needs.

The place he's talking about I mentioned in another thread because I didn't know he'd mentioned it here. That place is far and away the best place to farm elementals, it's great.

[wooti]

I have had good luck in shadowmoon valley, along the lava rifts. The fire elementals there have a decent drop rate.

[Shizma]

Once you are 70 and have a flying mount there is a spot called the Elemental Plateau, above and east of the Throne of Elements in Nagrand that has nothing but elementals, levels 69-71, for all your (elemental) mote needs.

:)
Once I am seventy and have a flyijng mount, I won't need the weapons or armor I can craft with motes of fire. As it is,Honed Voidaxe outclasses everything I can craft to use for the next five levels....

This part truly is an editorial complaint. Please ignore if you think you might be offended, or may have a coronary as a result of reading controversial matter.... It is purely insipid game design to create a class of crafted items for players at a specific level and class, and have the mats inaccessible to them until they have leveled beyond the need for the material or utility of the crafted item. It is detrimental to set drop rates so low in areas accessible to the player at the level of utility that they become price-prohibitive in the game economy, or are simply unavailable in the quantities needed. This is certainly true in the case of the mats for adamantite weapons and armor (all require 4-8 of each/both primal fire, primal air, primal earth or primal shadow), but is also the case with dark iron weapons and armor (requires fiery core / lava core / core leather unavailable without fighting in the zones that you would want it for) and imperial plate (requiring large amounts of thorium, for turnins and crafting, available primarily in Un'Goro crater. In the last case, the armor is useless at lvl 60.

By contrast, leatherworking supplies are bountiful (just skin what you kill) and alchemy supplies are as bountiful. Which leads the player to believe that if Blizzard wanted to, they could address the situation. Which leads one to believe that by encouraging agrarian and hunter-gatherer type crafts, and simultaneously discouraging industrial-age activities like engineering and metalworking, that they are trying to paint a particular brand of geo-social utopian community, one which has been repeatedly repudiated throughout modern history.

It is understandable why another game (Guild Wars) was voted game of the year this year.

Why can't they just entertain for corn sake...

editorial rant complepted.:thick:

[Myrkris]

Just as a comment, the higher level (read as "good") leatherworking generated armor also requires Primals to make, in similar quantities. Same for tailoring I assume, but I haven't looked at that.

To play Devil's advocate, I disagree with your position on the rarity of materials. If they didn't make some of the materials rare or otherwise hard to obtain, then everyone would be easily equipped with crafted gear. Doing that without nerfing the quality of the gear be bad game design, IMO. I'd rather see upgrades that are hard to make than "meh" gear that's easy, but that's just me.

[Shizma]

I agree with making the materials somewhat rare. Perhaps rather than rarity of materials (which gets exploited by commercial gold farmers) they could make the recipes unavailable until a certain combination of level/trade experience is achieved, or set the price of the recipes at a level that requires some commitment to game-time. Either way, the objective of keeping the gear from becoming overly common is achieved. They did some of this by making the high-end items craft-specific and BoP to prevent the issues with some of the rare vendor-recipes in pre BC (having players camp and buy uncommon recipes and sell them for cash at AH for 10x value).

I think making the mats inaccessible until the value of the item is lost level-wise is counterproductive and discourages crafting.

But then, I'm admittedly wierd. If something is made for fun, if it causes heartburn, it kind of loses its appeal :)

[Myrkris]

While I agree that the mats need to be available, I think they largely are. I sent you what, 3 Primal Fire last night? I think I might have a fourth already, just from incidental mining and mob drops. That's pretty much what is required for one piece of pretty good level 66 blue plate, so I don't interpret that as inaccessible. I figure by level 70 I'll have picked up a couple more without even trying, and the level 66 blue armor appears to be quite usable at level 70 until we start getting really high-end crafted stuff or instance/raid upgrades. If it literally wasn't possible to farm the mats solo by the level the gear is usable, or if the gear was inferior to similar level options (which is what EQ was like) I'd agree that we have a problem. On the other hand, given the quality of the gear for that level it should take a decent amount of work to make one full set, much less the several sets you want to make. A laudable goal to be sure, but also one that needs to be reasonablly difficult. Outland is really too easy as it is.

The bit about gold farming and commercial exploitation is a whole different issue, but again something I don't personally think is much of a problem. At least not compared to the alternatives, since any solution also would have a downside.

I do recommend Prilosec for hearthburn. :)

[Shizma]

While I agree that the mats need to be available, I think they largely are. I sent you what, 3 Primal Fire last night? I think I might have a fourth already, just from incidental mining and mob drops. That's pretty much what is required for one piece of pretty good level 66 blue plate, so I don't interpret that as inaccessible. :)

Hehe :)

Each primal fire requires ten motes of fire. I did receive the motes, thank you! and don't want to sound unappreciative. Gloves require four primal earth, four primal fire. That would be forty motes of earth, forty motes of fire, since each primal requires ten motes. Bracers and chest require six primal fire each, and six primal earth each. That would be sixty motes of fire, and sixty motes of earth, for each one. That would be 160 motes each of fire and earth for the three pieces available at lvl 66-67. :lick:

I already eat rolaids like candy and drink mylanta for lunch....

I don't have any grief with the rarity of the primal fire. The ratio of availability of fire and earth motes and adamantite is out of balance. You get about ten times the ore that you need once you've mined the necessary primals, and the fire and earth drop at a disparate rate. Makes a lot of useless clutter in the bank is all.

[Aessina]

Just for fun, I thought I'd make a list of items that require Primal Earth but not Primal Fire :)

Ironshield Potion
Mercurial Stone
Transmute: Earthstorm Diamond

Great Earthforged Hammer
Heavy Earthforged Breastplate
Helm of the Stalwart Defender
Stoneforged Claymore

Adamantite Frame

Figurine - Felsteel Boar
Mercurial Adamantite

Clefthide Leg Armor
Earthen Netherscale Boots
Gloves of the Living Touch
Heavy Clefthoof Boots
Heavy Clefthoof Leggings
Heavy Clefthoof Vest
Nethercleft Leg Armor
Primalstorm Breastplate
Reinforced Mining Bag
Stylin' Jungle Hat
Thick Netherscale Breastplate
Vindicator's Armor Kit
Windslayer Wraps

Bracers of Havok
Cloak of Eternity
Resolute Cape
Unyielding Bracers
Unyielding Girdle

Enchant Boots - Boar's Speed
Enchant Shield - Shield Block
Enchant Shield - Tough Shield

[Shizma]

Just for fun, I thought I'd make a list of items that require Primal Earth but not Primal Fire :)



You have entirely too much time on your hands!:confused:

hence the greater availability of the primal earth. Though it appears that both motes of earth and fire can be "mined" off elementals. Just need to find some. Anybody got a transporter beam to the elemental plateau?

[Aessina]

Looks to me like there's money to be made selling Primal Earth to leatherworkers, who are not likely to have Mining :)

[Sol]

thanks to the guild and shizma for this crafting effort! It is a real asset to the guild to have maxed out crafters.

as a result of Shizma's efforts, we have a few fel iron breastplate for any warriors that need something to hold them over.

Also, the adamantite is level 66 or 67 level requirement and is fairly nice with sockets in it. Good stamina and strength.

Shiz- last night my new comp crashed while we were conversing on this subject. sorry about that.

anyway, PM shiz for your armor needs! He can dole this stuff out as he sees fit.

[Maelc]

I would point out Shiz that leatherworking (my area of focus) has its own disparity. For example Maelc has been wearing all but one piece of the Felscale mail armor set even though he has been able to make the whole set for a quite some time now. Felscale Breastplate is lvl 66 so he only sells it. I suspect by the time lvl 66 is acomplished the breastplate and the set will no longer be the best he has. That is just one example but I will agree with your point as a whole. I am still waiting to make a cobrahide armor kit but the mats are pretty hard to come by as I understand it and the riding crop is only 12 skill points away. *sigh*

[Myrkris]

I suspect they put in the imbalance between ores and other mats needed (motes, gems, whatever) to provide plenty of mats for skilling without flooding the market with good items. Just a hunch, but it seems to be the pattern for the production skills.

[Moozipan]

I think I'm kind of missing something here. If the warriors want the gear, they should be farming the motes and bringing them to you.

If it's that you need the motes for skillups, then you go farm them.

This morning I farmed elementals in Nagrand - down on the ground, not all in the flying part - and got enough motes to make one of my four primal mights. It's really not that big of a deal to go farm stuff. It even gives experience.

I also disagree with the idea that smithing has it harder than the other named tradeskills. The herbs that I needed to finish leveling alchemy were not available to me until a few days ago, and then I was only able to get them because I could fly. Just because it seems that herbs are plentiful doesn't mean that those herbs give skill ups anymore, or make potions that are any good.

It is to your benefit that it is hard. I wish I could take you back to when I was trying to become a high elf smith in EQ - that took months of enchanting, farming, foraging - you name it. There was no way to do it in a couple of weeks. But, when it was over I had the market cornered. If it stinks so much to level it in WoW, when you persevere and get there, there will be rewards for you too - instead of having it be too easy and every Joe can do it.

[Shizma]

Thanks Moo... I don't want to give the impression I'm complaining about making gear for my brothers in arms. That's no big deal at all, and I'm happy to be able to help. I just get on a tempermental bend once in a while about things that just make little sense. What did Arsenio Hall say?? Things that make you say "hmmmm"... I enjoy the bejeebus out of this game, and it just torque's my necktie to come up against pointless frustrations. Kind of like having somebody glue your pawns to the board, or changing the order of the squares on the board, just because..

I complained the same way when I was grinding rep with Thorium Brotherhood and the Mithril Order.... HATE grinds.:ohwell:

[Myrkris]

Thanks Moo... I don't want to give the impression I'm complaining about making gear for my brothers in arms. That's no big deal at all, and I'm happy to be able to help. I just get on a tempermental bend once in a while about things that just make little sense. What did Arsenio Hall say?? Things that make you say "hmmmm"... I enjoy the bejeebus out of this game, and it just torque's my necktie to come up against pointless frustrations. Kind of like having somebody glue your pawns to the board, or changing the order of the squares on the board, just because..

I complained the same way when I was grinding rep with Thorium Brotherhood and the Mithril Order.... HATE grinds.:ohwell:

Heh, I feel your pain. That's why I tend to focus on gathering, and let you guys with more patience make the stuff I need with the mats I gather. Oh, wait... :01:

But such is the way of MMOs as far as I can tell. I haven't seen any that don't make you grind for some purposes, in this one it's faction for certain quests/items/recipes and mats for some crafting. The way I figure it, at least you don't need to grind to level!

[Sol]

I think all armor and weapon crafters can complain that the stuff they craft (esp. blues) looks good until you check the level requirement and realize that by the time you hit that level -- the gear is outmoded and surpassed by instance drops that are easily attainable to good pugs or guilds.

That being said, the adamantite gauntlets i got from Shizma are awesome (since I never got plate glove upgrade from Furnace) and the BP is aswesome since I didn't get the plate BP from the end guy in slave pens. So, its good in a way to have armorcrafters as committed to their craft as Shizma is!

I have 3 fel iron breastplate for HLS tanks that have hit 64. Thanks to Shizma!

Sound off!

[Myrkris]

I think all armor and weapon crafters can complain that the stuff they craft (esp. blues) looks good until you check the level requirement and realize that by the time you hit that level -- the gear is outmoded and surpassed by instance drops that are easily attainable to good pugs or guilds.

That being said, the [adamantite gauntlets] (http://www.hordelandsecurity.org/forums/itemstats/updateitem.php?item=adamantite%2Bgauntlets) i got from Shizma are awesome (since I never got plate glove upgrade from Furnace) and the BP is aswesome since I didn't get the plate BP from the end guy in slave pens. So, its good in a way to have armorcrafters as committed to their craft as Shizma is!

I have 3 [Fel Iron Breastplate]</span> (http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=23489&locale=enUS;source=live) for HLS tanks that have hit 64. Thanks to Shizma!

Sound off!

Hmm, I seem to have a need to level Mnevis all of a sudden... ;)

Easy mats on that set, just Fel Iron Bars. No reason every over-60 Warrior in HLS can't get a full set of Fel Iron as they level in the low-60s, btw.

[Shizma]

Aye, easy gather, easy craft, easy delivery, and best of all, no charge :)