Molten Core - August 28th

[Soy]

Well.... we got our asses kicked..... again. But, it went much smoother than last week, no? =)

So what's everyone think of MC so far? I was voicing my opinion on HLS's private mailing list, and for myself, it's one of my least favorite instances so far. It's hard organizing 40 people to work together, show up on time, etc.... (and kudos to Sol for working hard at this. We love him for it.) There is also a ton of downtime in between pulls. Especially after those nasty wipes. No drops or money, coupled with a nasty repair bill.

It's really no surprise that I much prefer a challenging 5-man run. I've been saying that to my boys for months now. It's just a shame there's not very much fat loot from those. =/

Since I'm a Priest, I'll give my thoughts on healing. Despite having only 2 (go roll Priests, people!), I thought healing went fairly well. On a lot of our more controlled pulls, we had zero fatalities. Nice! The times where we got in trouble were times when no amount of Priests would have saved us. The part where I really need help on is buffing and dispelling. That's where our lack of Priests really hurts the group.

Discuss.

Any random comments... thoughts... gripes... ?

[Myrkris]

Definitely a lot better than last time, which made it a lot more pleasant. Hopefully it'll get to where I look forward to going to MC, but it ain't there yet! ;)

My biggest gripe is that everyone in the raid group needs to pay better attention. There are two times this was a problem - setup and during some pulls.

During setup,people need to join the appropriate channels! It shouldn't take a half-dozen requests to get most of the healers into the healer channel, and we shouldn't have any healers out of the channel for the entire raid. So far, that's been the case, and it isn't just the healers that aren't joining. For my fellow shamans in particular, you need to remember that in MC you have to be a healer, too. While we can get away with being a damage dealer in PvP and most PvE, not in MC with our class distribution.

The other setup issue was people not paying attention to where they needed to be at raid start time or during buffing. For example, if the raid time is 7:30 and you are asking for a summon at 7:28, you're already late. Either log at the zoneline, or request your summon 10-15 minutes out so everyone is ready to go on time. The Warlocks have better things to do with their shards than summon you at or after raid start time. Likewise, if you want to be buffed, you should sit down in the main group and stay there. While it's a neat zone and it may be your first time in there, that's not the time for sightseeing. Missing a buff either costs the buffer more mana and money, or it means you are less effective in the raid.

During the raid itself, we need to work on applied teamwork. There isn't the margin of error we're used to in instance groups or solo, when fighting mobs like that. While we might not have wiped because of lack of attention to directions during the raid itself, things certainly went harder for us as a group and sol as the raid leader because of it.Let's try to at least minimize the frustrations Sol faces leading these things, since it's damn hard work and he's doing it for us. .

[Soy]

In regards to paying attention.... I really liked when Sol used the white-text popup thingy. One time he wrote out "Pulling Giants 30 seconds" or something, and I thought that worked perfectly. Because it really is hard to miss.

Use that more, Solly!

[Myrkris]

In regards to paying attention.... I really liked when Sol used the white-text popup thingy. One time he wrote out "Pulling Giants 30 seconds" or something, and I thought that worked perfectly. Because it really is hard to miss.

Use that more, Solly!

Excellent point, and dead on. That was really handy, since it gave me an idea when to drop totems. Since they only last 60-90 seconds, I want to drop them at the last possible second to get the best value out of them.

[Sol]

MC bites me in very sensitive areas of my body.


seriously, we have to get 40/40 people with CTRA.

that is about my only gripe. rest of it can be handled with some better experience, which we're getting.

[Greenie]

My observations are quite simple.

Setting up fights - - -
The first couple pulls, there were few pauses... we got in, we got busy, we didn't screw around. As we approached the second bridge, there was more debate in /ra which slows our progress down. Against a respawn timer, this kills us, as we saw.

/RA chat - - -
Too much chit-chat. Too much 'patting ourselves on the back' and too much general 'chatter'. Once we get this thing down and we can walk in and own the place, then we can concentrate a bit less and let our hair down a little more. However, until we get this under control, it would be nice to be able to pay attention to /ra without having to weed through for pull information, OTM's, etc.

Agro control - - -
Tanks could not keep agro off casters. I am not sure if the casts went off too soon or if things just are what they are. But when the pulls (and adds) ping pong around, it's quite hard for the healers to keep everyone alive. Focusing healing to only a select number of individuals will make healing more effective, especially when we only have 2 or 3 priests along.

Just my 2cp...

[Myrcaus]

My observations are quite simple.

/RA chat - - -
Too much chit-chat. Too much 'patting ourselves on the back' and too much general 'chatter'. Once we get this thing down and we can walk in and own the place, then we can concentrate a bit less and let our hair down a little more. However, until we get this under control, it would be nice to be able to pay attention to /ra without having to weed through for pull information, OTM's, etc.


I expect most of our future communication to take place via vent, and disseminate through the class/role channels. The white pop-up raid leader stuff will also get more use.

I feel encouragement and "gj" is as important as any communication that happens. Morale is tough to maintain when you're learning a tough zone.

[Greenie]

I expect most of our future communication to take place via vent, and disseminate through the class/role channels. The white pop-up raid leader stuff will also get more use.

I feel encouragement and "gj" is as important as any communication that happens. Morale is tough to maintain when you're learning a tough zone.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.

[Soy]

I expect most of our future communication to take place via vent, and disseminate through the class/role channels. The white pop-up raid leader stuff will also get more use.

I feel encouragement and "gj" is as important as any communication that happens. Morale is tough to maintain when you're learning a tough zone.

True. But I very much agree with Greenie too. Vent or otherwise.

But I'd say all in all it's not too bad. The majority of us stay shut up for the most part.

[Muddus]

I believe the white text thing is a feature of the latest and greatest RA, so if you don't have it you need it and just as important, you need to keep up to date when there is a new release, because the new features pretty much rock.

As for the healing channel I ignored the first couple of requests because I thought I was already in the channel. It didn't dawn on me that we'd switch to a completely new channel one week later.

I will pay better attention next time, but if we have a set channel I don't need to join a new one every week.

[Myrcaus]

But I'd say all in all it's not too bad. The majority of us stay shut up for the most part.

I know I'm probably not one of those people. I talk a lot, in and out of game, so I type a lot, too.

If I'm generating useless chatter when I shouldn't be, just let me know you think so. Soy, Darkkwing, anyone.

[Darkkwing]

However others were pissing me off. So hopefully we can get this together and working. Good idea for now on only the leaders use /raid and everyone else can chat away in thier chat however limit. If they want to talk they can go on Vent or some other voice server while we use /raid for pure bussiness. Once we get the chat, pulling, working together and CT Raid Assist situlation under control we'll do good for MC.


I am glad regeants are under control. Yes I'm a tank warrior however I can sacrfice one of my PvP days since the system is all fucked up due to elitist bastards and Morons joining WSG to farm gold to recover the cost.

[Myrkris]

I believe the white text thing is a feature of the latest and greatest RA, so if you don't have it you need it and just as important, you need to keep up to date when there is a new release, because the new features pretty much rock.

As for the healing channel I ignored the first couple of requests because I thought I was already in the channel. It didn't dawn on me that we'd switch to a completely new channel one week later.

I will pay better attention next time, but if we have a set channel I don't need to join a new one every week.

Good point, wasn't it "hawchealers" the first run, and "hawcheal" the second? I drop those channels when not in MC, so it doesn't matter to me, but I can see how staying signed in also makes sense. Maybe one of our raid leaders should put up a standard list of channels, which we will default to?

[Myrcaus]

I recommend:

HAWCtank
HAWCheal
HAWCmage
HAWClock

...

Any I'm missing? I did think about putting mages and locks in the same channel, but... dunno. Warlocks coordinate curses and Soulstone casts. Not sure mages care about that stuff, but it might be beneficial for them to be aware of curse strategy.

[Myrkris]

I recommend:

HAWCtank
HAWCheal
HAWCmage
HAWClock

...

Any I'm missing? I did think about putting mages and locks in the same channel, but... dunno. Warlocks coordinate curses and Soulstone casts. Not sure mages care about that stuff, but it might be beneficial for them to be aware of curse strategy.

Hunters may need to coordinate Marks and such, IDK. I can't think of any specific coordination particular to rogues, or to any of the healing classes by themselves, so this looks pretty good to me.

[Thwak]

hunters may want to be in the tank channel since after all we wear mail!!!

no.. seriosuly though. there isn't a whole lot for hunters to coordinate with each other. basically who marks and who keeps trueshot up. once we start getting a few tranq hunters then we'll have a rotation on that so maybe however there are also a few pulls where i have read the strat calls for pairing hunters with warriors for off tank pulling which is why i said that.

either way - until we get 3+ tranq hunters there is little need for a hunter only channel as 2 tranq hunters can coordinate via tells.

short names ftw!

[Sol]

If they want to talk they can go on Vent or some other voice server while we use /raid for pure bussiness.

the ventrilo server is not for idle chatter either. its useful only if people are using it correctly, which I feel people are doing. Its a good way to get real-time info to people in the raid, while if i have to pause and type something or hit a button macro to communicate, the information may be too old already.

the channels should be agreed upon... maybe after next raid we will document it.

hawclox is what you guys were using last week... and for warriors it was hawcwarrior or was it plural? hehe i do appreciate the people that use those channels for relevant discussion. helps keep /raid clear and clean.

[scuttlekraw]

Hey everyone i have had a great time on the two runs we have tried so far. I dont really have anything to add. I just wanted to say hello.

[Kul]

I'll be happy to use our teamspeak server for these events and any other group events that may need voice coms. Its patched through a line at a buddies job completely dedicated. I'll supply the ip afterwork and perhaps a few guys can sample the quality. If its a go I'll establish all the accounts and rooms needed.

Text chat just wasnt effective since everyone is chirping across the channel. The large broadcast box used by sol was a nice touch to get around the chatter issue.

Flaws from the raid itself, were the pyro pulls. Our dps group seemed slow to respond to the spawns. Second, when we encounter 2 pyro pulls, utilize a hunter to make the pulll, feign death near the MT and then let the MT pull one mob back to the group, the 2nd mob will fade off from reports I've read. A few practice runs and we'll have that part down. Every pull seemed simple enough, just the pyros kept getting the better us

The last main issue was the time involved. With a few more sunday runs I think this should improve as we get more comfortable as with any instance and perfect our after battle procedures.

[Sol]

Kulgar!

glad to have you posting.

Have you joined the HE group yet? hit your user CP link if you have not.

We have a ventrilo server running on a very fat pipe, it has no problem holding 20-30 people (tested so far). Its hosted in Michigan by Potpie and I'm in Minnesota and get 40 ping to it.

I don't know if you have gotten access to the HAWC forums yet, but you should have it if you get into the HE user group. We have Ventrilo download instructions there and IP for the server.

I know you will enjoy the HAWC general forums, I have posted up a Fire Resist gear thread and I know you are a fellow tank that has been putting a lot of effort into gearing up for FR and +Def. :)

[Kul]

Yes, membership updated earlier this afternoon. I'll setup vent. later tonight and get romping with everyone else. In regards to the gear, ya I've been active gathering DI along with fellow guildies. Ive got a lot of work to do to get our team upgraded for future runs. Will talk more in the other threads, keep the focus here to MC for the other grunts.

[Thwak]

when we encounter 2 pyro pulls, utilize a hunter to make the pulll, feign death near the MT and then let the MT pull one mob back to the group, the 2nd mob will fade off from reports I've read.

I don't believe this will work - at least not as described here. If the mob is pulled near the MT then (or anyone in the raid) then both will go for the tank when they are pulled unless of course FD is resisted in which case they will kill the hunter and then both go for the tank.

I have heard of Hunters splitting pulls and it is worth looking into and getting some practice at however we should always be ready for two pulls since FD can be resisted quite easily by lvl 60+ mobs. Might be worth checking out the imp FD talent in 1.7 - 50g to try though... ouch!

Our first run in I attempted to split the two mobs with no luck... granted I only tried once. FD was resisted however I ran towards the mobs at that point to sacrifice myself from the bad pull however the rest of the raid was either too close to the aggroed mobs (thier range is huge) or someone else tagged it as well. Whatever happened we were needlessly down one DPS class as a result of that failed attempt.

Another method I have read about is using Eyes of the Beast (ability that lets hunters take over their pet like Mind Control). This method sounds a bit more feasable in MC. From the little I read about it the Hunter would place himself far out of aggro range of both the raid and the location of where the pet will be tagging (proximity pull) the mob. If the pet prox pulls two mobs then click off the Eyes of the Beast buff and the pet will vanish. Hopefully out of aggro range of the Hunter however the Hunter will also FD to help reset the mobs.

This isn't so much a way to split a linked pull as it is to get multiple tries at a very tight non-linked pull without racking up a huge repair bill.

I personally like the kill one and zone method best though I admit it is a cheesy tactic. ;)

Do we have any Hunters in HAWC that have experience splitting pulls (particularily dual Firelords) in MC? If so I'd like to hear how they did it as the forums are very tedious to search through.

[Potpie]

Sunday night Sol was single pulling Firelords no problem - I do not know what he did differently, but it worked. :D

[Kul]

Yeah, past the first bridge those two firelords looked surely close enough to be linked.

[Thwak]

Sunday night Sol was single pulling Firelords no problem - I do not know what he did differently, but it worked. :D

Are you talking about the first or second set? I think we pulled the second set singley the first time we went in as well. The first set I have heard that can be done for as well but you just have to be exact on the timing. They apparently aren't linked - just close to each other with a large aggro range though they do path somewhat.

[Potpie]

We did not have a double Firelord fight at all.